Dag's 1978 Volvo 245 dl estate

dagabba

Supporting Member
Yay, it's new project time!

Having been off work for a few months now I've got surprisingly little done... that's mostly because I've been homeschooling the kids... lots of fun but very intense!

However I've been thinking about some things. Some of the threads I've really enjoyed here are recreations of people's 1:1s, or their childhood family car, etc- particularly things like Land Cruisers. I've never had a 4x4 of any kind, I've been more into sports cars... then boring family cars... but I grew up with Volvo estates and I think they've got great character. We drove all over Europe in two particularly, for my Dad's work, visiting family and friends and holidays, so I've got a lot of great memories involving them.

So here we go, plan is to make a nice Styrene body... I'm not quite sure about the chassis yet, it will probably end up being hacked together rather than scratch built.
 

dagabba

Supporting Member
First stage is gathering resources.

Here's the first car we had, a 1978 245 dl, originally on Swiss plates, in a wonderful shade of orange!

IMG-20200408-WA0026.jpg

And here's me picknicking on it.

IMG-20200408-WA0028.jpg

Here's a blueprint:

volvo245.jpg

And here are some dimensions, it's both long and narrow!

1:1 1:9
Wheelbase 2639mm 293mm
Track F 1430mm 159mm
Track R 1351mm 150mm
Length 4897mm 544mm
Width 1707mm 190mm
Height 1461mm 162mm

Edit: I realise you can't make out much from that blurry photo, here's what it actually looked like:

bb016ae56fbfdfacfe15d1d0f81a46c3.jpg

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dagabba

Supporting Member

dagabba

Supporting Member
Ok, more preambling here, a couple more pics:

Here's the chassis- I'm not an engineer but I believe this is basically a big safety cell with front and rear subframes.

cagesecirute.JPG

And here's a shot from underneath to show the drivetrain layout:

Er apparently not, that pic is the wrong format. Nevermind, it looks like this- front engine/gearbox, rear wheel drive. IFS (Macpherson Strut), Solid Rear Axle with radius arms.

So... I won't be using frame rails, going to make basic front and rear sub frames from aluminium stock then put in a lower mid section to hold the passenger tub- my skills won't stretch to a full safety cell but this should provide space for the interior.

Question: I think it will be a good idea to tap the holes I drill in the chassis rather than use millions of nuts, what pitch is a standard RC m3 bolt?
 

dagabba

Supporting Member
Ok... this is getting very wordy... sorry...

Next thing is suspension. The rear should be reasonably straightforward, I'll try to make radius arms work with a narrowed solid axle, the dampers actually connect to the radius arm behind the axle which I'd like to emulate.

Up front sadly I don't think there's going to space for a Macpherson Strut- I'd need to fit in a very small damper above the hub. However, double wishbone is pretty close and allows me to mount the damper on the lower arm.

Mocking up the size:

20200606_203427.jpg

And a few parts stolen from other builds/spares boxes to start things off. Front suspension is all Tamiya M06, same for wheels, rear axle you probably all recognise. It's going to need to be substantially slimmer!

20200606_203513.jpg

So, more bits are on their way... please share hilarious Volvo/tank/boat stories and any pics or technical knowledge!
 

joe122

Well-known member
Oh boy....a styrene scratch build!!! Going to enjoy this!!! Well documented so far, looking forward to this!
 

Frederik

Supporting Member
Hey dagabba! That is a nice project idea and I like that chassis layout too! I will be following along for sure.


Up front sadly I don't think there's going to space for a Macpherson Strut- I'd need to fit in a very small damper above the hub. However, double wishbone is pretty close and allows me to mount the damper on the lower arm.

So, more bits are on their way... please share hilarious Volvo/tank/boat stories and any pics or technical knowledge!


Maybe you saw my build where I made a MacPherson front suspension, with M chassis wheels. If you use the right rod ends it can be pretty small. I used some old Losi threaded shocks and grinded off the head. In my case I made a straight 2 ended links, and a secondary link that attaches to the middle of that one to triangulate on the chassis:


CCOJcFDh.jpg

GWGPeigh.jpg

sdXl7fdh.jpg




I wanted to see how the front suspension arms are on your car, only pics I found are those, looks to be really a 3 point arm, and not links like I did on the Escort, but it probably clears less space for the steering links that way:


https://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~amh110/Handling/volvo_sports_handling_V2.htm

FrontArm10%20deg%20Lg.jpg



On that same page, I see pics of a guy's Volvo build who also put Watt's linkage just like my Escort lol!

240rearsuspdiagram.gif



Is the factory setup with a regular panhard bar? Like in this white schematic? If so this is likely the radius arm setup you are talking about, with the shocks attaching to the rear end of the arms?


Watts_link_240.jpg





Very interesting subject! Can't wait to see some new progress!

Fred
 

dagabba

Supporting Member
Oh boy....a styrene scratch build!!! Going to enjoy this!!! Well documented so far, looking forward to this!

Thanks Joe!! I need to try a US/Custom one day...

Hey dagabba! That is a nice project idea and I like that chassis layout too! I will be following along for sure.

Maybe you saw my build where I made a MacPherson front suspension, with M chassis wheels. If you use the right rod ends it can be pretty small. I used some old Losi threaded shocks and grinded off the head. In my case I made a straight 2 ended links, and a secondary link that attaches to the middle of that one to triangulate on the chassis:

I wanted to see how the front suspension arms are on your car, only pics I found are those, looks to be really a 3 point arm, and not links like I did on the Escort, but it probably clears less space for the steering links that way:

On that same page, I see pics of a guy's Volvo build who also put Watt's linkage just like my Escort lol!

Is the factory setup with a regular panhard bar? Like in this white schematic? If so this is likely the radius arm setup you are talking about, with the shocks attaching to the rear end of the arms?

Very interesting subject! Can't wait to see some new progress!

Fred

Yes Fred, absolutely love your escort and I've been rereading the thread for ideas. First point- I'm afraid my chassis won't be anything like as nice as yours, I can't weld steel for a start so it's all going to be Aluminium stock- it'll probably look like an Audi hehe. Also planning to do it as a lower skeleton- the styrene will fill in the rest.

However, I'd like to get the suspension close if possible. Since I didn't get underneath the car when I was little I'm trying to do the research now... up front I agree, looks like a lower wishbone with the strut on top. Main job here will be machining nice hubs like yours, I'll give it a go. I'm also going to try using M-chassis shocks as they're small and readily available.

In the rear, yes, I think it looks exactly like that schematic- radius arm/panhard/torque arm. Found a nice vid of someone replacing the bushings- that should work out ok.
 

dagabba

Supporting Member
So here's some actual progress...

Got some bits in the post, pretty much sorted for a scale driveline now- RC4WD R4 up front, SSD AR44 in the rear.

20200612_122036.jpg

You might notice the rear axle is a bit narrower now. Got hold of a diamond axle and two offset front axle sets, now I've got a few different widths to play around with (though I'll probably swap the diff housing for something more stock...)

20200612_121636.jpg

And you can also see I've got the blueprints printed at the correct scale after many tries... here's the process I use for cutting the body. Tape the blueprint onto a sheet of styrene, then start carving.

20200612_145253.jpg

Using 2mm to create a strong structure so I've given up trying to cut through the whole thing at once, just cut through the paper and score the styrene underneath.

Window and door removed:

20200612_150013.jpg

All cut out:

20200612_150828.jpg

And here I've cut away the shape:

20200612_154259.jpg

Back half done too, here's one side before shaping:

20200612_224236.jpg

Cheers all!
 

Frederik

Supporting Member
Nice start on the first cut pieces! And the axle looks to have nice proportions in your last mock up. It looks like you really need much bigger wheels though! Can you measure the outside tire diameter in your blueprint, and also the wheel diameter? Just to see what kind of tires and wheels could fit nicely.

If your blueprint is fully scale, it looks like you need wheels that are about as big as your mini tires outside diameter (which are 55mm type) so I guess about 2.1 inches wheel?


Edit: looks like the wheels are a bit big in your schematic, compared to this googled side view pics:

Edit #2: Maybe the wheels in your blueprint is ok after all! It looks like it is the wheel arches that are too small, especially in the front.

box_1974_volvo_245dl_2.ashx

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dagabba

Supporting Member
Very good start!


Wes

Thanks Wes!

Nice start on the first cut pieces! And the axle looks to have nice proportions in your last mock up. It looks like you really need much bigger wheels though! Can you measure the outside tire diameter in your blueprint, and also the wheel diameter? Just to see what kind of tires and wheels could fit nicely.

If your blueprint is fully scale, it looks like you need wheels that are about as big as your mini tires outside diameter (which are 55mm type) so I guess about 2.1 inches wheel?


Edit: looks like the wheels are a bit big in your schematic, compared to this googled side view pics:

Edit #2: Maybe the wheels in your blueprint is ok after all! It looks like it is the wheel arches that are too small, especially in the front.

Yes, those wheels are place-holders right now. Size-wise, the pics are slightly misleading- it's hard to show how things relate exactly as the foreground/background distorts a bit. However, the wheels are pretty much exactly the same size. I need to have a good look through the M-chassis wheel options for something more Volvo-ey. Tyres are quite a lot bigger- there's a tall side wall which you don't see a lot in on road RCs. I think they might be a touch large in the blueprint... but I'm looking for something around 70mm diameter. As you can see in the driving pic you posted, especially at the rear, large tyre/small wheelarch works because it's actually recessed a fair way. If I can get the track width spot on this should work for me too.

Need to do some more cutting out tonight... Body is going to happen first, then I'll try to make the chassis fit, should be easy to slightly reprofile the arches at that point if necessary.

Edit: just did some more measuring and calcs and actually I think you're right, the schematic wheels/tyres are too big. This has me questioning the whole thing but the body measurements all seem to be correct so hopefully it's just a wheel issue. Stock, the tyres should be 185/70/14 which is exactly a 1.55 with a 68mm tyre. So far I've got a couple of options- I could stretch a smaller off road tyre round a 1.55 or M rim, or... these guys are a tiny bit big but are super narrow with a nice tread pattern, 1.7 is around a15 inch rim which could also work:

Screenshot_20200618-130531_Chrome.jpg
 

Frederik

Supporting Member
There is also those big rig racing tires that use tamiya M mini wheels, but bigger sidewall, I have some and they measure 2 13/16 diameter. I will snap some pics mounted on M wheels I have here (I have a good variety of M wheels models I can show you later too):

61qGi3GYgXL._AC_SX466_.jpg
 

Frederik

Supporting Member
Here it is compared to a M tire and wheel on the far right (a 60mm diameter tamiya slick which is already 5mm larger diameter than your current 55D), and also compared to a regular touring car diameter with the gold wheel, second from left (this is an HPI vintage tire on some aftermarket wheel). The gold wheel makes the fake taller sidewall look, even though the wheel inside is really regular touring car diameter.



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